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 Interview: Ask Former CSIS Agent, Michel Juneau-Katsuya


The World Forum

By Drog (Canada), Section Interviews
Posted on Fri Mar 18, 2005 at 12:48:28 PM PST

Ever wanted to ask a real-life spy questions? Now's your chance. Security intelligence specialist and former CSIS agent, Michel Juneau-Katsuya, has graciously agreed to be interviewed -- by you -- on our site.

Former National Coordinator of the Counter Terrorism Interdiction Program for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Michel is a veteran security and intelligence officer with 26 years experience in the domain.

Michel started his career as a police officer with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) before being recruited by CSIS. He has performed duties as Criminal Investigator, Intelligence Officer in both Counter Intelligence and Counter Terrorism, and also as Strategic Expert on Global and Emerging Issues where he studied and assessed the development of agro-terrorism and its potential impact on Canada. He was appointed very early in his career as Chief of National Requirements and later as Chief of Contingency and Emergency Planning for CSIS where he and his team were able to develop and implement the first Contingency and Emergency Plan for CSIS. This plan received the "Best Practices in the Federal Government" special distinction from the Federal Treasury Board. His knowledge of Asia brought him a Directorship of the Strategic Analysis Unit, Asia/Pacific. He also led a special joint project with the RCMP analyzing Chinese Organized Crime. To that effect, his team performed a special intelligence assessment on the activities of organized crime in various fields.

Parallel to his career, Michel received a BA in International Relations from UQAM, an MA in Social and Political Thought from the University of Sussex, England and carried out his doctoral studies in Political Philosophy at the University of Ottawa. He taught at various universities and was a regular lecturer at the CSIS Training Centre and the Canadian Police College. He frequently appears on TV and radio as a guest speaker on intelligence and security issues and has published several articles in the field.

Michel is currently the President and Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of The NorthGate Group, a company specializing in international Security Intelligence Assessment.

Here at The World Forum, YOU ask the questions. All week long, you can post your questions as comments to this story. You are strongly encouraged to get a free account, if you don't already have one, so that your questions are not anonymous. During this time, you can also rate each others' questions. At the end of Friday, March 25, the 10 top-rated questions will be sent to Michel Juneau-Katsuya and his responses will be posted here as another story as soon as possible.

Please note that while Michel is very open and approachable, for obvious security reasons he cannot answer questions about specific operations, cases or methodologies. If he's not at liberty to answer a question, he'll tell us so.

What's your opinion?
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Display: Sort:
A day in the life... (4.66 / 3) (#30)
by janra (Canada) on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 08:14:30 PM PST

Could you describe - without giving up any details you aren't allowed to, of course - what a typical day (or week, or assignment, or whatever unit of time is most appropriate) is like for an intelligence agent?

How does it differ from the movies? (4.50 / 4) (#18)
by Drog (Canada) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 09:01:53 AM PST

How accurately are real spy agencies depicted in the movies? Obviously many spy movies are plain silly, but do any of them get it right?

Al-Qaeda (4.40 / 5) (#11)
by erikg (Norway) on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:19:24 PM PST

After 9/11, Al-Qaeda has been described as a highly organized terrorist network of almost epic proportions, with sleeper cells in most western countries, constantly plotting new attacks. However, many (for example the BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares") are now saying that Al-Qaeda as an organization doesn't actually exist, and that what we are seeing are multiple small, independent terrorist organizations which share the same islamist ideology but otherwise have little or nothing to do with each other. Bin Ladens role is mostly as a funder of some of these groups, while Al-Zawahiri contributes to the political and religious framework for radical islamism, but otherwise they have little to do with the actual planning and execution of terrorist attacks. What are your thoughts on this?

China (4.40 / 5) (#15)
by rickyjames (USA) on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 02:03:12 PM PST

What's your opinion of the security threat posed to the U.S. and Canada in the next ten to fifty years by China?  

What is Terrorism? (4.40 / 5) (#26)
by Machi (Canada) on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:00:51 AM PST

Can we expect government agencies to protect Canadians against terrorism without negating the rights of those accused of such acts? Should the accused have rights or should we just throw away the key? What is the price of our tolerant ideals and behaviors? Is the price set by whether we are affected personally?

What is Terrorism? Is an act of violence, that is perceived as an act of self preservation, a terrorist act or is it retaliation? Who labels what is a terrorist act? Are we labelling terrorism from a universal perspective or from our own western point of view?
 

Media coverage (4.33 / 3) (#10)
by erikg (Norway) on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 07:55:17 PM PST

Do you believe mainstream media-coverage to properly reflect the state of the world today? Would you say that there is a fairly proportional relation between coverage of international issues and the actual importance of the issues, or do you think that the media is often used as a political tool to set the international agenda and to limit the range of political debate?

Security versus rights and freedoms (4.25 / 4) (#1)
by Drog (Canada) on Fri Mar 18, 2005 at 07:22:54 PM PST

We have been told by our governments since 9/11 that we must give up some of our rights and freedoms in the name of increased security against terrorism. I have always had a problem with that idea, though, because (a) I worry that the threat of terrorism is being used as a pretext for government authorities to gain more power, when in fact law enforcement may already have the necessary tools to tackle terrorism (just not the money), (b) I am not at all confident that someone in authority would not someday abuse those new powers, perhaps for nefarious purposes or perhaps simply in the belief that the end justifies the means, and (c) I think once you willingly give away your rights and liberties, it will be extremely difficult to ever get them back -- especially when the threat of terrorism may last for generations. The reduced rights and freedoms eventually become the norm, as does the justification for reducing them, making it easier to remove more civil liberties in the future, little bit by little bit.

Do you think that a reduction in our rights and freedoms, as illustrated in the 2001 Anti-Terrorism Act (Bill C-36), is justified? How can we best draw the line between ensuring our security while at the same time protecting our rights and freedoms?

The greatest threat (4.20 / 5) (#13)
by Drog (Canada) on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:53:05 AM PST

During one of the U.S. presidential debates, President Bush and Senator Kerry both agreed that nuclear proliferation is the greatest threat to the national security of the United States. Many analysts of national security were surprised by this agreement, and surmised that Bush and Kerry must have seen intelligence reports that had not been disclosed to the public. What was your take on their agreement? Do you agree that nuclear proliferation is the greatest threat to the U.S.? What do you think is the greatest threat to the entire world? What should we be doing to mitigate that threat?

Overreaction making the US more vulnerable (4.00 / 4) (#3)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 12:36:41 PM PST

It seems to me that the US overreacts to terrorism in ways that are in themselves a security risk. The threat of terrorism is over-dramatised in ways that make the US more vulnerable than it would otherwise be.

After all, the risk to any individual of getting hurt in some terrorist attack is insignificant compared to everyday risks such as domestic violence, traffic accidents, smoking and illness.

Europe has seen much terrorism -- think of Baader-Meinhof/Rote Armee Fraktion, Basque separatists, IRA -- and has reacted much more soberly. The aim of any terrorist attack to get publicity and spread fear. In Europe sometimes it's been debated that the media turn themselves into tools of the terrorists by giving them publicity and spreading fear.

If terrorists want publicity, it seems rather unhealthy to not only give them massive continuous publicity for years, but even gear the entire society in relation to the terrorists. If terrorists want to spread fear and unrest, it seems unhealthy to constantly fuel and maintain the state of fear and unrest that the terrorists created long ago.

With the strongly fearful and emotional reactions of the US, terrorists can push specific buttons to get specific results.

What do you think about this?

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

Annan's five D's to fight terrorism (4.00 / 4) (#6)
by Drog (Canada) on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:18:01 PM PST

Recently, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan outlined what he called the "five D's" necessary to fight terrorism -- (1) dissuading the disaffected from choosing the tactic, (2) denying terrorists the means to carry out attacks, (3) deterring state support, (4) developing state preventive capacity and (5) defending human rights in the struggle against the scourge. He also announced the creation of a UN implementation task force to ensure that all departments and agencies within the United Nations contribute to carrying out this strategy.

What are your thoughts on this?

The NorthGate Group (3.75 / 4) (#12)
by Drog (Canada) on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:41:35 AM PST

I have heard of private security companies before, but never a private "intelligence" company. Your website says that you focus on improving security as opposed to increasing security; that you determine what the actual threats and risks are, and what is simply hype. Is your company, The NorthGate Group, unique in this approach?

Also from your site:


"Our consultative approach and unique analytical capabilities match and routinely out pace those of established national security and spy agencies. Because we are not limited to specific jurisdictions, foreign policies or political agendas, we respond to present day environments which are, in essence, borderless."

I find it very interesting to think of what a private group of trained intelligence specialists could accomplish when unfettered from jurisdictions, foreign policies and political agendas, while still having access to their established network of intelligence specialists worldwide. Have you found it to be a liberating experience?

American influence? (3.75 / 4) (#19)
by Drog (Canada) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 09:10:09 AM PST

I have heard it said that the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) considers Canada's Communications Security Establishment (CSE) to be just another branch of the NSA. How much influence do the U.S. security and spy agencies have on ours? Is it an amicable relationship?

Effects of the Iraq war on international security (3.60 / 5) (#4)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 12:38:52 PM PST

Could you comment on the effect that the Iraq war has had on world-wide security risks and terror threat, and on whether these effects were predictable before the war?

First, it seems to me that the terrorist threat has increased, rather than decreased, as a direct result of the war and the subsequent disorder. Kidnappings in Iraq -- the kidnappings of locals even more so than those of foreigners -- seem to have become a profitable way to finance what you might call a new kind of mafia, which is focused on terrorism, and tends to spread internationally.

The profits may make this as difficult to combat as any other mafia, while the tendency to spread internationally and the use of suicidal bombings make it more dangerous than any mafia.

Second, it also seems to me that this consequence of the war was to a large extent predictable -- and predicted -- before the war. For example, debate here in Sweden before the war focused very much on, and analysed, what would need to be done after the US would win the war. Some debaters said that the Bush administration necessarily had some plan with novel, unexpected solutions that nobody had ever heard of before, because otherwise the war made no sense, while others worried that it might have no post-war plan at all. I can't recall anyone arguing that known solutions would work, that there was no need for some completely novel and unprecedented plan.

If our media knew that this was needed, it seems intelligence agencies must have known this too.

What's your view on this?

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

Tackling the roots of terrorism (3.60 / 5) (#5)
by Drog (Canada) on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 08:10:06 PM PST

Thus far in the "war on terror", it seems we have been concentrating on finding terrorists and preventing their attacks rather than on stopping people from becoming terrorists in the first place. In a 2002 interview with the Ottawa Citizen, you said that ultimately we need to extinguish the hatred and anger that can inspire people to fly commercial airliners into skyscrapers. "We can turn Afghanistan into a parking lot. We can turn Iraq into a parking lot. That will not solve the issue. It is an illusion. We have to tackle the roots of terrorism. It will take a generation."

Might the best way to extinguish the hatred that creates terrorists be to simply stop embarking on military actions against foreign nations? Stop invading, stop bombing, and stop occupying? If so, is this really feasible? It seems like it would take a radical shift in policy on the part of nations such as the U.S. and Russia. I can see Russia perhaps simply washing their hands of Chechnya someday in the far future, but what would it take for the U.S. to decide to pull out of the Middle East altogether?

Cooperation among agencies (3.60 / 5) (#7)
by Drog (Canada) on Sat Mar 19, 2005 at 09:54:13 PM PST

In Canada, we have CSIS, the RCMP and CSE (which are more or less the counterparts to the CIA, FBI and NSA in the United States). I would think that often, particular cases would require two or more of these organizations to cooperate with each other. In the wake of the Air India acquittals, you said that the 1985 bombings couldn't have come at a worse time, with CSIS being only a year old and the RCMP still bridling at having to cooperate with them. So I'm wondering if having three separate agencies is a good idea because it makes them leaner and less bureaucratic, or if it's a bad idea because it reduces communication and cooperation.

Taiwan (3.60 / 5) (#16)
by Mead (USA) on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:00:33 PM PST

Do you think China will (or even has the capacity) to direct its organized criminal elements to destabilize and gut Taiwan from within, 'unofficially'? Or will they mount a direct military attack?

Or are they just posturing, with the status quo likely to remain for another 50 years?

How do we stack up? (3.40 / 5) (#14)
by Drog (Canada) on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:50:11 AM PST

Having worked for both the RCMP and CSIS, how do you think they compare to their American counterparts, in terms of expertise, resources, cooperation, bureaucracy, respect in international circles, etc?

Terrorism And Poverty - Everywhere (2.33 / 3) (#27)
by Arby (Canada) on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:52:31 AM PST

Michel Jean-Katsuya: If I tell you that I feel that the efforts by our Canadian government, out of sight of the public, to deal with international terrorism constitute a self-serving make-work project, Would you agree with my view or at least understand it?

The mainstream media, of course, isn't going to say enough about unfair taxation and offshore tax havens and financial clearinghouses, even though you will find crime and terrorism connected to all of that. The well-off have a stake in the current system and will, instinctively and consciously and semi consciously, as Peter Dale Scott notes, protect the whole ball of yarn from unravelling. I hate all kinds of (real) crime, and I hate out of control global finance because I see how it affects me and other poor folks directly. One source that I've found to be good on the subject of offshore tax havens - she pulls no punches - is Lucy Komisar, who presently is writing a book about the subject. She notes, in her article USA Bank Laws Fund Terrorists that: "Terrorist networks all over the world depend on the international bank and corporate secrecy system to hide and move their money. This structure is allowed to exist by agreement of the world's banks and financial powers, including the United States and its allies. Internationally, many make money from the system, including the owners and managers of banks that hide customers' deposits from tax authorities."

Thanks.

*5 trillion $ sit, untaxed, in offshore tax havens, protected by George Bush, while 'leaders' whine that they can't afford social spending.*

Out Of Control Global Finance (2.00 / 5) (#8)
by Arby (Canada) on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 03:29:58 AM PST

Michel Jean-Katsuya: If I tell you that I feel that the efforts by our Canadian government, out of sight of the public, to deal with international terrorism constitute a self-serving make-work project, Would you agree with my view or at least understand it?

Why do I care? Besides caring for the reason that it's the right thing to do, I also happen to be a member of the working poor class. We are many. I have to pay 'all' of my taxes. Maybe what I pay in taxes is peanuts to someone like Maurice Greenberg  ( http://www.alternet.org/story/21517/ ) or Bernard Ebbers, who is looking at spending the rest of his life in prison, most likely, should he be convicted this summer on all nine counts related to his alleged masterminding of fraud to the tune of $11 billion dollars. Ebbers headed WorldCom, a telecommunications company now known as MCI. But to me those peanuts that I pay in taxes mean a great deal. I don't even earn a living wage. I possess no benefits and the only job security I have is luck and my ability to please my employer. I went for 4 years without a raise with this company until they finally (a few months ago) added an extra 50 cents to my hourly wage. My employer points out that the only way to get and keep contracts is to keep costs down. He wishes his clients would pay more so that he could pay us (security guards) more. So, Who exactly cares? For while my boss sympathizes with me, he also supports the system that he admits screws me. (See www.howdarethey.org and  http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/11/offshore.html and http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020506&s=schapiro  and  http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20000424&s=greider  and http://www.cbc.ca/disclosure/archives/030401.html#csl )

As my signature on so many discussion forums I frequent states: Five trillion dollars sit, untaxed, in offshore tax havens while 'leaders' whine that they can't afford social spending. Clearly, They don't want to do social spending. For one thing, The people are the enemy. The last thing you want to do is give them power. They may then not only get ideas about how society might be managed, but they may also attempt to bring about the changes they envision. In the jargon found in official government documents, as Noam Chomsky has documented, the reference is to the danger of "radical nationalism." Or "economic nationalism." Just today I read an article in the Toronto Star (I'm from Toronto, Canada) titled "World Bank No White Knight: Insider," by Olivia Ward. Talk about establishment. This fellow, John Perkins, used to be an American hit man (figuratively, although, as he notes, it also involved literal 'hits' but not by him personally) for international capitalism. His explosive (I'm sure) book is titled CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HIT MAN. I'm reminded of another book that Lucy Komisar told us about way back in 2002. In her April 15, 2002 In These Times magazine article titled "Explosive Revelation$," she introduced us to a book titled "Revelation$," written by Ernest Backes and Denis Robert. The authors look at a financial clearinghouse of which Backes was at one time a high official. Through this clearinghouse, large banks and large corporations laundered billions of dollars.

"As discussed earlier, "free trade" is highly regarded by those who expect to win the competition, though honored in the breach when interests so dictate. Correspondingly, opposition to economic nationalism (for others) is virtually a reflex among global planners. It became a primary theme of US policy after its own resort to protectionism, import substitution, and other such "ultranationalist" methods enabled the US to play the game successfully." -Noam Chomsky, pg 34 of YEAR 501 - THE CONQUEST CONTINUES

"...the World Bank is not the benevolent organization it was created to be. It has worked hand in glove with the United States in a global system that sinks the neediest more deeply into the trough of poverty, through unaffordable international loans... the bank is only part of a bigger problem... For years, "bribes and threats" kept [John Perkins] from publishing his experiences, and he buried himself in research and teaching about indigenous peoples, and working with non-profit organizations. But after the World Trade Center attack, a trip to New York's Ground Zero convinced him the time had come: "I saw Osama bin Laden accepting money and weapons worth millions of dollars, from a man employed by a consulting company under contract to the United States government," he said. "Then I saw myself sitting at a computer with a blank screen."" -World Bank No White Knight: Insider," by Olivia Ward, Toronto Star, March 19, 2005

"In the tax haven of Luxembourg, a little-known outfit called Clearstream handles billions of dollars a year in stock and bond transfers for banks, investment companies and multinational corporations. But a former top official of this "clearinghouse" says Clearstream operates a secret bookkeeping system that allows its clients to hide the money that moves through their accounts.

"In these days of global markets, individuals and companies may be buying stocks, bonds or derivatives from a seller who is halfway across the world. Clearinghouses like Clearstream keep track of the "paperwork" for the transactions. Banks with accounts in the clearinghouse use a debit and credit system and, at the end of the day, the accounts (minus "handling fees," of course) are totaled up. The clearinghouse doesn't actually send money anywhere, it just debits and credits its members' accounts. It's all very efficient. But the money involved is massive. Clearstream handles more than 80 million transactions a year, and claims to have securities on deposit valued at $6.5 trillion.

"It's also an excellent mechanism for laundering drug money or hiding income from the tax collector. Banks are supposed to be subject to local government oversight. But many of Clearstream's members have real or "virtual" subsidiaries in offshore tax havens, where records are secret and investigators can't trace transactions. And Clearstream, which keeps the central records of financial trades, doesn't get even the cursory regulation that applies to offshore banks. On top of that, it deliberately has put in place a system to hide many of its clients' transactions from any authorities who might come looking." -Lucy Komisar, "Explosive Revelation$," In These Times magazine, April 15, 2002 ( http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1434/ )

Admittedly, My wages don't fall under the heading of 'social program'. But it's interesting to note that when rightwingers feel like screaming in anger at poor folks who (some of them) see as a drag on the economy when governments support them via social programs like welfare, they refer to jobs as the best social program there is. "Every time I write about poverty, I get a volley of messages pointing out that the best social program is a job. Children wouldn't be poor if their parents got off their butts and worked, irate readers insist. Taxpayers wouldn't have to waste their hard-earned money on social assistance if welfare recipients earned a living like everybody else," wrote Carol Goar in her March 18, 2005 Toronto Star Editorial titled "Sometimes A Job Is Not Enough." Goar also quotes this statistic: "As of 2000 - the last year for which he could get national figures - one-third of all working Canadians earned less than poverty wages (not enough to bring them up to Statistics Canada's low-income cut-off)."

I not only think that the scams of the capitalist class are immoral. And I not only think that there should be fair taxation and more fairness period. More than that, I am a victim and I will never, never, never submit to being defeated psychologically even if I'm defeated economically and physically. Capitalists have the power in this world. That's clear. But you'll see no Stockholm Syndrome here. I know that capitalism is my oppressor. I am a hostage to neoliberal capitalists and their 'socialize the costs and privatize the profits' mode of existence. I haven't weakened to the point where I have started seeing things the way they want me to see them. Carol Goar is perfectly establishment, for example. Like most of the writers in the (liberal) Toronto Star, she rarely uses the word 'capitalism' or it's variants. As Howard Zinn pointed out ( http://www.isreview.org/issues/39/zinn.shtml Scroll to David Barsamian's question "Is this unique to the United States?"), that's a terrible leftwing term. In other words, From the standpoint of capitalists, on the Right and Left, the game is the thing. The establishment media and assorted cultural managers (namely the first targets of propaganda, necessarily) avoid using the word 'capitalism' on the theory that what's out of sight is out of mind. So they refer to 'free markets' instead. Hopefully, We of the bewildered herd will continue to complain, loudly but incoherently and ineffectively (and our letting off steam probably reassures the capitalist class), about what capitalism and neoliberal policies do to us, for that is the result of not clearly naming and identifying the problem you face.

Whether you lose or win, The great Darwinian game of 'riches for the strongest' is all that matters. Or is there more to it? Well, I think that some of those who play this game know better than others.

Noam Chomsky (again), in commenting on so-called 'free trade' in his book, YEAR 501 - THE CONQUEST CONTINUES, perceived quite clearly the rules of the game, even though, unlike myself, he believes in Darwin, democracy and democrats: "Those who expect to win the game can be counted on to laud the rules of "free competition" - which, however, they never fail to bend to their interests." -pg 10. In other words, Many of those who have won in the game of 'riches for the strongest', who cheerlead for neoliberal capitalism and philosophies that underpin it, and who, by the way, sometimes know better - as we see from the work of folks like Ernest Backes and John Perkins - perhaps cheerlead too easily. I'm not going to suggest that you can change rich (uncaring) people, and their language, by making them poor. Changing your mind and admitting your mistakes - which is possible, but not seen much - takes humility. By definition, If you believe in and willingly play 'riches for the strongest', you lack humility. So, Being a loser in the game isn't enough, as I try to get those on the Left (who are relatively powerless and therefore more likely to be real in their language) to see. The problem isn't that we have lost in that game. The problem is that game. I don't want to be connected, unprincipled and rich enough to arrange to avoid paying my taxes or what have you. I don't want the game, period.

Peter Dale Scott wrote DEEP POLITICS  AND THE DEATH OF JFK. I first learned of the book from the Toronto Star, which said the following about it: "May well be the most thoughtful and serious-minded of the 2,500 titles [in 1993] on the subject published over the years." I may misunderstand Scott the way Scott, according to Noam Chomsky, misunderstood him (in DEEP POLITICS), but I would venture to say that organized crime and capitalism and it's institutions are all one big ball of wax that is, in fact, organized crime. If that isn't what Scott proposes, That's still what I think and that's what he leads me to be sure of. As for democracy, the word's useless. Everyone uses it and no one uses it properly. Democracy means humankind's rule over humankind, period (My Microsoft Dictionary presents the basic meaning of 'rule of the people'.) People are, for now, imperfect and that imperfection allows for all kinds of folly, even serious folly. I'm not a democrat because I believe in Jehovah and his Kingdom, which isn't to say that I don't think we weren't meant to manage ourselves. But we were not meant to be independent from God the way folks are.

"A deep political system or process is one which habitually resorts to decision-making and enforcement procedures outside as well as inside those publicly sanctioned by law and society. In popular terms, collusive secrecy and law-breaking are part of how the deep political system works. What makes these supplemental procedures "deep" is the fact that they are covert or suppressed, outside general awareness as well as outside acknowledged political processes...

"Deep political analysis focuses on the usually ignored mechanics of accommodation. From the viewpoint of conventional political science, law enforcement and the underworld are opposed to each other, the former struggling to gain control of the latter. A deep political analysis notes that in practice these efforts at control lead to the use of criminal informants... In time one may arrive at the kind of police-crime symbiosis familiar from Chicago, where the controlling hand may be more with the mob than with the police department it has now corrupted.

"It is customary to acknowledge this kind of symbiosis as a local or regional problem, not a central one. But..." -Peter Dale Scott, from the Preface to his book, DEEP POLITICS.

Perhaps we could use some of Peter Dale Scott's deep political analysis.

*5 trillion $ sit, untaxed, in offshore tax havens, protected by George Bush, while 'leaders' whine that they can't afford social spending.*

Too lengthy, I'm afraid... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Drog (Canada) on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 05:31:56 PM PST

Hi Arby,

I just thought I'd say why I rated this question rather low (others may disagree with me and rate it high). It's not because what you said is not interesting, because I think it is. It's just that the question is a lengthy essay in itself, making it more suitable for a story submission or a diary entry. I thought it was just too lengthy for an interview question, in my opinion.

Is there any chance you could repost this question more succinctly, say in one or two paragraphs, so that what you are asking is very clear? For instance, your main assertion seems be that the efforts by the Canadian government to deal with international terrorism constitute a self-serving make-work project. Perhaps you could state that opinion, back it up with a paragraph (or two), and then ask for his thoughts on the matter.

By the way, welcome to the site!

[ Parent ]

Too ranty, I'm afraid... (3.00 / 1) (#17)
by Mead (USA) on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:01:13 PM PST

But you'd love www.democraticunderground.com.

[ Parent ]
I Just Want To Leave I'm Afraid (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by Arby (Canada) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 11:09:10 AM PST

How many more folks are going to publicly announce that my post is too long, while I await a reply from Drog, who I emailed a few days ago asking how to remove, edit, and re-submit my post? How fair is that?

Don't worry about me checking around. There are many who find comfortable little worlds to disappear in, who also knowingly pontificate on the state of the wider world, and then there are many who, impressively, actually put their heads up and see what's going on out there, even if they like the comfort of some sites where they happen to fit in and know brothers and sisters. I'm an explorer.

To the next person who feels the need to 'thoughtfully' say something about my rant: I've got the message, and you don't need to repeat it in order to rate me. No one's stopping you from rating me. Just do it and leave me alone.  :-)

*5 trillion $ sit, untaxed, in offshore tax havens, protected by George Bush, while 'leaders' whine that they can't afford social spending.*
[ Parent ]

Please don't leave! (none / 0) (#21)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 12:55:50 PM PST

How many more folks are going to publicly announce that my post is too long

Please don't be offended! And please don't leave!

Here on the World Forum we're trying to establish new principles, where a respectful attitude and friendly, helpful advice are valued highly. There are so many discussion sites where people hurl abuse whenever they see something they don't like. We're trying to build a different atmosphere and tone here. But having this as a principle means that we are trying something new, so we have to try and perhaps make mistakes along the way, while we learn how to do this.

You can see some of our thinking in this description of what the site is all about and in this proposal for rating guidelines.

On discussion websites, when you give advice for improvements, it's very common to discuss it very openly, in public. I've been giving Drog lots and lots of thoughts on how I've felt that his site could be improved, all of it in public. (Most of it was in this discussion, which I used for such comments before Drog created the Site Talk box. You'll find the Site Talk box at the bottom of the frontpage, left side.)

If you really feel that your comment should not be seen anymore, it would be possible to hide it, by giving it the lowest possible rating. Then the comment and all its answers would be hidden from public view, only "Trusted Users" could see them. But that's only intended for abusive comments and other serious misbehavior. Your comment doesn't deserve that. There's nothing abusive or destructive about your comment. You've been friendly, you have done nothing wrong against us, you have made an effort to contribute. Your effort is in fact appreciated.

I really wish you could feel that the advice was given with a friendly attitude.

I think that if we can discuss openly how to write better comments, if we can give each other advice on how to write, then this will help us all. We'll all learn hos to make our voices better heard in the democratic debate! This is important for everyone's right to express themselves, and everyone's ability to defend their democratic rights.

Precisely this philosophy of strengthening everyone's democratic voice has made me become very engaged in this site. I've been planning a discussion site of my own based on that very thought. Drog's philosophy wasn't identical, but it fit so well that seeing it I felt very much at home here, as a stopover while preparing my site.

If you have an improved version of your comment, you're very welcome to post it! And I hope that you will feel that if someone should give you more advice, it will be given in the spirit of helping us all learn and improve our abilities to make our voices heard in the democratic debate.

How do you feel about this?

(By the way, as you can see, I tend to write long comments too... :-) )

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
[ Parent ]

Thanks (4.00 / 1) (#24)
by Arby (Canada) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 11:21:15 PM PST

I've distracted folks from other things, which I regret. I feel like I'm still doing it.

I'm told that I can't change the post, but I can copy  and paste parts of it in order to submit something else. Sorry, But that's got me completely confused. If I can't alter - make shorter - the original post, What good is it for me to do another that's shorter perhaps, but which only replicates something already done? I'm possibly not getting something here.

I can rate my own post?!

Well, I'll play around with it now and see what I can do.

Incidentally, You'll often find me in Alternet, in the Currents section, under 'Ongoing Canadian Perspective'. I don't get why Alternet, whose managers I distrust, can't make the Ongoing Canadian Perspective into it's own Conference, but that's how it is. I also haunt the Straight Goods forums. www.straightgoods.ca. You can also read my essay on 'Noam Chomsky, Democracy And Theocracy' in the archives section of www.justresponse.net

Later...

*5 trillion $ sit, untaxed, in offshore tax havens, protected by George Bush, while 'leaders' whine that they can't afford social spending.*
[ Parent ]

Explanations (none / 0) (#28)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 11:42:26 AM PST

I've distracted folks from other things, which I regret. I feel like I'm still doing it.

Thanks for your concern. Don't worry.

I'm told that I can't change the post, but I can copy  and paste parts of it

Comments can't be edited, even Drog can't edit a comment. This is a limitation in Scoop, the computer program that keeps this website running. Scoop has this limitation because comments form conversations. For example, if your comment suddenly became very short, the entire conversation that follows it would become very strange. People reading the page would think that we insist on even shorter comments than your new short version.

Thus the solution is to post a new question, and simply forget about your old question, simply ignore it. I see you already did post a new question, good.

I can rate my own post?!

No, you can't. We could hide it for you, if you should ask us and insist strongly. Of course I can't promise that others would accept (it's a kind of voting system). Myself, I don't like the idea of hiding a good conversation just because one comment is long. Still, if you should feel very strongly about it, my guess is that people would accept.

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
[ Parent ]

Hey Arby (none / 0) (#22)
by Drog (Canada) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 07:02:15 PM PST

I just sent you an email answering your questions. I apologize for the delay, but I had never received your email in my Inbox. When I read your comment here, I checked my spambox and disovered it and another user's email in there. So I'll have to check my spambox more regularly from now on. I hope you have not been offended, and will consider sticking around.

[ Parent ]
Your spam filter really is very zealous! (none / 0) (#23)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 10:20:17 PM PST

Remember, it also ate my mail. Maybe you can tell the filter to let through all mail that contains the two words World and Forum, and on the contact page suggest that people mention the World Forum in their mails to pass your spam filter.

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately... (none / 0) (#25)
by Drog (Canada) on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:09:15 AM PST

I cannot seem to do that with Yahoo Mail.

[ Parent ]
Continued at Site Talk (none / 0) (#29)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:11:05 PM PST

I'm answering this at Site Talk since it's off-topic here, and the thread might become long, we'll see.

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
[ Parent ]
"CSIS" vs. "real-life spy" (none / 0) (#2)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Fri Mar 18, 2005 at 09:21:07 PM PST

Drog, congratulations on arranging our first interview. Let's hope this gets interesting.

I hope non-question comments are also allowed.

In my part of the world nobody knows what CSIS means. The text under the photo spurs interest only if you know what that means.

Your first two sentences in this article are very good, very captivating: "Ever wanted to ask a real-life spy questions? Now's your chance." If you let the text under the photo start with that I think every visitor to our site will click on it.

I'll post a few questions for the interview, soon.

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

That's a wrap, folks (none / 0) (#31)
by Drog (Canada) on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 08:37:21 PM PST

Looks like we have some great questions here -- thanks, everyone! I'll send the questions to Michel tomorrow morning and post his responses when I get them.

thanks (none / 0) (#32)
by gent00 (Spain) on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 08:04:00 PM PST



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