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 Interview: Ask John P. Avlon, Author Of 'Independent Nation'


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By Drog (Canada), Section Interviews
Posted on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 10:56:06 AM PST

I am very pleased to announce that respected author and columnist, John P. Avlon, has agreed to be interviewed by us on The World Forum.

John is a columnist and associate editor of the New York Sun, having written numerous articles on centrism in American politics, including such pieces as "Revenge of the Radical Centrists: How the Republican Party can achieve political realignment" and "Ending the Split-Scream". He was also former chief speechwriter for New York City's Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, and is the author of "Independent Nation: How the Vital Center is Changing American Politics", which is now out in paperback/softcover under the name "Independent Nation: How Centrists Can Change American Politics"

He recently appeared on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart discussing his book "Independent Nation" (you can view the interview here), during which he talked about how Americans are living in an incredibly polarized time, and how this isn't normal. It's not that the American people are so polarized, he said -- the centrists are actually the majority -- it's that the parties and debates are being controlled by the extremes.

Independent Nation contains a collection of essays detailing how politicians from both the left and the right addressed the essential centrism of the U.S. political environment, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. The New York Post described it as "a compelling distillation of recent political history through the prism of Centrist politics. It's well-written and fun to read... and its timing couldn't be better." His essay on the attacks of September 11th, "The Resilient City" was selected to conclude the anthology "Empire City: New York Through the Centuries" and won acclaim from Fred Siegel, the author of "The Future Once Happened Here", as "the single best essay written in the wake of 9/11."

As well as being on The Daily Show, he has also appeared on FOX News, MSNBC, the Dennis Miller Show, CNN, and C-Span, and has served as regular panelist on NPR's Left, Right and Center and "Batteline" on Radio America.

Now it's your turn to conduct the interview -- World Forum style. That means from now until this Friday, YOU ask the questions. Be sure to rate other people's questions too, because at the end of Friday, the top-10 rated questions will be sent to John Avlon and his responses, when ready, will be posted back here for your enjoyment.

What's your opinion?
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The world could use more dialogue about its differences — a little understanding goes a long way. There are many online forums where people with different perspectives yell at each other and hurl abuse. There aren't so many where completely different points of view are expressed rationally and constructively. That's why The World Forum was created.
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How can it be fixed? (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Drog (Canada) on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 08:22:53 AM PST

How can centrists -- or those who are on the left or the right but still want to see respect and reasoned debate between the two sides -- fix the current situation in the U.S.? What can the common person in America do to put a stop to the extreme polarization affecting politics and media?

The international community (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Drog (Canada) on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 08:39:05 AM PST

The rest of the world has looked on as the U.S. has spiraled down into a quagmire of politicians that won't cooperate with each other and media sources that cannot be trusted to speak the truth. Here in Canada, we are greatly affected by what goes on in the United States. But unlike Americans, who are empowered to change the system from within, we can only watch with a horrible feeling of helplessness. Do you think there is anything the international community can do to help the U.S. get back on track without hurting international relations? For instance, do documentaries like the CBC's recent attack on FOX News, Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter help things or hurt things (or are they even noticed)?

The Role of the Media in Democracy (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 03:25:48 AM PST

How do you view the role of the media in democracy?

I think the media will serve the public better if they feel that it's in their own interest to do this, that they'll profit from doing it. And I think many of them could profit greatly from taking a different role.

According to the statistics here and here, in my country, Sweden, the number of TV sets is very roughly the same as the newspaper circulation, while in the United States the number of TV sets is very roughly four times as high as the newspaper circulation. If American newspapers should start selling like Swedish papers do, they'd see their market more than doubled.

And in the process the political discourse would gain considerable depth.

They should be able to do this. The media play a crucial role in democracy. For democracy to function properly the people must be vigilant, checking their government all the time. But you can't have all your millions and millions of people traveling to the White House, Congress and all other places to check everything. Instead you must have a few people doing the checking and then reporting to the rest.

That's the most important role and responsibility of the press.

When I mention this role of the media, Americans often say that no, the media don't have this role, instead there are institutions that provide checks and balances. That arrangement is certainly indispensable, but institutions can never replace the vigilance of the people.

The people must also keep the media in check. Every person contributes to this (or should contribute to this) by choosing which papers etc to buy, subscribe to etc.

TV and newspapers have different roles here. TV is by necessity shallow while newspapers analyse things in depth, since TV has soundbites where papers have whole articles. On TV you can get to know a politician's charisma, charm, friendliness, humour, quick intellect etc. In the newspaper you can find analyses, you can choose what to skip, skim or read in depth, you can read at your own pace and stop to think and then read on without losing information, you can cut out and keep material for reference. You end up with completely different information.

Many Americans say "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." Well, yes, it is! So don't stop there! What's the price of eternal vigilance? How is it paid? Are you willing to pay this price?

Considering that people have died for democracy, the price is ridiculously low. The price of eternal vigilance is a dollar a day and a few hours of your time every week, to support and read the paper or papers that you think do the best job of checking your government and defending your democracy.

Do you think this reasoning is valid? Do you think there's a chance that newspapers will take and get their rightful role? How do you view the role of the media in democracy?

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

How does centrism interact with funding of parties (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by RevMike (USA) on Mon Apr 25, 2005 at 01:18:42 PM PST

I'd like to frame this question in an example.  The lobbies that represent the pro-life and abortion rights causes are substantially influential.  They can control large amounts of money, as well as steer substantial blocks of votes toward their candidates.  Many people (likely a majority) have an opinion somewhere between those extremes:  that outlawing first trimester abortion is an excessive interference with a woman's body, but that by the third trimester the child is a viable life with a full set of rights that must be protected in a civil society.  No one, however, is going to join an organization that is simultaneously pro-life and pro-abortion.

It is easy to motivate people to donate money with absolute statements, but not with reasoned centrist viewpoints.  Without that base of support, there is no one to donate money, nor is there a block of votes to be had.  In order for a group to be influential, they need to deliver either money and/or votes.  How can a centrist caucus succeed in that environment?

To put it another way, the parties align themselves to a series of somewhat radical platform planks.  The voters generally only care about one or two positions.  They'll disregard the positions that they don't feel strongly about, even if they have a preference in order to vote for the party that reflects their strongest beliefs.  How can voters be trained to evaluate candidates on their entire platform, and not just on the issues that seem most important to that voter?

What Is The Unifying Issue? (4.50 / 2) (#13)
by rickyjames (USA) on Sun Apr 24, 2005 at 04:24:53 AM PST

Is there any key issue that can unite Americans anymore?  Somehow the unity generated by the 9/11 attacks has pretty much vanished, I think, and nothing seems to be on the horizon to replace it.  Fighting terrorism was an issue everybody could agree on until it degenerated into a color-coded no-win mess that has given us a 300+ billion war in Iraq, having nothing to do with either terrorism or WMDs, that Americans seem to be willing to tolerate indefinitely rather than protest.    

The Frist Justice Sunday Telecast (4.50 / 2) (#15)
by rickyjames (USA) on Sun Apr 24, 2005 at 04:38:07 AM PST

What do you think about Justice Sunday?  Bill Frist, persidential wannabe - is his participation just routine political posturing, or does a Republican leader of his stature stating out loud that "the Democrats are against people of faith" open up a truly new level of polarization?

Two-party system (4.00 / 1) (#5)
by Drog (Canada) on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 05:34:51 PM PST

One could argue that the best way to bring centrism back to American politics would be to create a new centrist party to represent the centrist views of what you say is the majority of the American population. It's hard to believe that would ever make a difference, however, in what is essentially a two-party system due to the election method (one ballot, one vote). Adopting something like the Condorcet election method would fix this, but neither the Republicans nor the Democrats would ever allow such a system without HUGE public pressure.

Do you think modifying the U.S. electoral system in this way would help heal the political divide between Republicans and Democrats in the U.S., or even render it inconsequential by giving more choices to voters? Do you think any major modification of the electoral system will EVER happen?

The Transatlantic Rift (4.00 / 1) (#8)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 03:12:00 AM PST

For some reason my questions have become very long and ranty. I'm sorry! I don't know how to change this.

I'm Swedish, and here we don't have split-scream shows, I don't know what that is. From articles on the Web I get the impression that people actually shout at each other rather than discuss, and that they aim to raise anger and exacerbate conflicts rather than clarify, explain and convince.

If I've understood this correctly, maybe this can explain some of the tragic difficulties in understanding between the United States and Europe. It may mean that certain tones and attitudes are okay on one side of the Atlantic while they're baffling and incomprehensible on the other side.

Before the Iraq war, when the Bush administration lost patience with the countries that opposed their view, Bush expressed their stance as "Either you're with us or you're against us."

Assuming shouts and anger in political discourse doesn't raise eyebrows over there, maybe Bush's wording is seen as acceptable. Perhaps it's even seen as a way to clearly and purposefully take a stand. But on my side of the Atlantic such a wording is weird and baffling, because it's an outrageous show of disrespect for your counterpart, and, what's even worse, outrageous disrespect for the democratic mindset.

Of course international relationships aren't democratic. Still, one does expect a democratic mindset in the relationships between democratic countries. Democracy is based on discussion rather than the strong enforcing their will on everyone else. When this is no longer possible you can lose your patience, you can say that the time for debate has run out and urgent action is indispensable, you can even force action -- but still the way you do it has to express interest in and concern for the democratic mindset.

And of course, in addition to that, it must also show some respect for your counterpart.

Considering how destructive the rift has been, and how unnecessary it seems, maybe Bush's wordings, and many other things, are seen in such different light on the two sides of the Atlantic that only highly specialised experts in diplomacy can bridge the gap.

What do you think about this analysis? What's your view on the rift between the US and Europe?

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

Are questions really pre-screened? (4.00 / 1) (#10)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 03:37:41 AM PST

When Bush visited Germany in February I was stunned that a meeting was cancelled because President Bush (a democratically elected president!) didn't dare meet the general public without pre-screening their questions.

The reports claimed that this also happens in the United States. They said that Bush always gets to either pre-screen his questions or choose his reporters. Is this true?

Do all American politicians get to pre-screen their questions and choose their reporters?

If this is the case, do you think there's any chance that the media will get the courage to change this and submit politicians to real questioning? And is there any chance that the politicians will get the courage to publicly answer the unfiltered questions of the people that elected them?

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

A time for centrism.... (4.00 / 2) (#12)
by Machi (Canada) on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 12:35:28 PM PST

In your New York Sun article of November 5, 2004, you say that America is a much more conservative country than it is a liberal one. I think what you say is true but I would like to know why Americans are so conservative politically?

Why is there such a political divide in the US? or Perhaps why aren't the political centrists more in the forefront?

Do you believe that there can be a political party in power that would implement and balance fiscally conservative policies with socially responsible ones?

With extremism being the norm all around ie left wing governments rising to power throughout Latin America, terrorist groups very active in Iraq and throughout the middle east, religious right influences in the current US government, is it really a time for centrists? Can centrism be radical enough to stand up and be counted for? or does  the idea of centrism itself not allow for political action?

Backlash against "split-scream" debates (3.00 / 1) (#1)
by Drog (Canada) on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 12:47:14 PM PST

You said in your interview with Jon Stewart recently that you think there is a backlash underway against the "split-scream" style of so-called debates such as what you see on CNN's Crossfire and that you believe this will result in a centrist resurgency in the 2008 presidential election. I hope you're right.

Crossfire's cancellation, shortly after Jon Stewart appeared as a guest and criticized their lack of reasoned debate, would seem to support this. Is there any other evidence to support this backlash? Surveys, opinion polls, etc?

Polarized Times (3.00 / 1) (#2)
by Drog (Canada) on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 08:14:49 AM PST

How did it happen? How did the U.S. become so polarized along political lines? Even the media seems polarized. Was it a calculated plan by some group of people? Or did it just... happen?

Are the Democrats really on the left? (3.00 / 1) (#6)
by Drog (Canada) on Wed Apr 20, 2005 at 06:21:29 PM PST

The Democratic Party has been criticized as trying to be too much like the Republicans in an attempt to win favour with more voters instead of being true to their convictions and presenting an unabashedly "liberal", left-wing stance. If this is true, then aren't the Democrats already a centrist party?

Are you proud of your democracy or not? (3.00 / 1) (#11)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 04:01:51 AM PST

There's a contradiction in American politics that seems dangerous to me.

I get the impression that politicians get very little respect. Sometimes it seems as if the word politician were an invective. At the same time the United States prides itself on its democracy and freedom.

You can't have democracy without politicians. Democracy is what politicians do. You entrust your democracy to politicians. Politicians embody your democracy.

How can you be proud of your democracy and at the same time despise it?

If this contradiction indeed exists, doesn't this entail a danger? Your pride in your democracy defines the United States and keeps it together. It's an essential uniting force. It seems necessary for the existence of the country. What would the United States be without it?

You need to be proud of your democracy, you can't afford to despise it.

Does this contradiction exist? How does it work?

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

The Nuclear Option (3.00 / 2) (#14)
by rickyjames (USA) on Sun Apr 24, 2005 at 04:30:26 AM PST

If the Republican party follows thru with "the nuclear option" of administratively shelving Congressional fillibuster debate against judicial nominees and thereby procedurally reducing the Democratic minority into near-irrelevance, then what?  Do you think that's truly a major critical threshhold to cross or just one more nudge down the slippery slope?

Drog: I can't judge these questions (none / 0) (#7)
by QuickFox (Sweden) on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 03:01:12 AM PST

They've become terribly long and ranty. Although I really am very interested in the answers, the questions sound very much like rants written only to express my own opinions.

I'm also worried that maybe I come across as arrogant and negative toward the United States.

I can't judge this. Sometimes it's very difficult to judge something you've written yourself. If there isn't time for voting you'll have to decide. I'll understand if you choose not to include my questions.

If there's time for voting, people could express their opinion by giving 1 or 2 to say the questions shouldn't be included, 3 to express acceptance without strong opinion either way, and 4 or 5 to say they should be included.

-- Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.



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