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 Tom Cruise Debates Psychiatry On Today Show


Entertainment

By Drog (Canada), Section United States of America
Posted on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 10:07:58 AM PST

In an interview on NBC's Today Show with Matt Lauer, Tom Cruise aggressively defended his opposition to psychiatry and anti-depressive drugs. This occurred after being asked questions about his criticism of Brooke Shields, who has been taking drugs, including Paxil, for postpartum depression. Cruise is usually known for keeping his cool in interviews, but recently he has been slightly more unbound.

Cruise's statements, including "Psychiatry is a pseudoscience", and "There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in a body", reflect the beliefs of the Church of Scientology, of which he is a member. The interview became particularly tense when Lauer mentioned that he knew people who had been helped by taking Ritalin, an attention-deficit disorder drug.

"Matt, Matt, you don't even -- you're glib," Cruise responded. "You don't even know what Ritalin is. If you start talking about chemical imbalance, you have to evaluate and read the research papers on how they came up with these theories, Matt, OK. That's what I've done."

Cruise went on to say: "You don't know the history of psychiatry, I do."

Cruise's claim to have a scientific understanding of the way antidepressants work is countered by the fact that he has not formally studied medicine beyond a high school education.

Lauer insisted that Ritalin helped people: "You're telling me what's worked for people I know or hasn't worked for people I know. I'm telling you, I've lived with these people and they're better," Lauer said.

Cruise hinted that Lauer was promoting Ritalin and Lauer scoffed: "I am not. I'm telling you in their cases, in their individual case, it worked."

The exchange ended when the two basically agreed to disagree. Cruise, who is 42, did admit that one of his goals is to speak more about Scientology in an effort to get people to understand it better.

The rest of the interview will be aired on Monday.

Scientology has historically been at odds with the established medical and mental health community. The rift dates back to the 1950s and Scientology's founding father L. Ron Hubbard. In his book, "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health", published in 1950, Hubbard claims that Dianetics (later called Scientology) could cure the majority of human ailments. These claims were sharply disputed by a variety of mainstream science and medical professionals including psychiatrists.

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Cruise statements about psychiatry (none / 0) (#1)
by olof29 (Sweden) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 11:47:36 AM PST

Cruise did state that there are no medical tests, no proven "biochemical imbalance" for the claimed psychiatric disorders. And everybody knows this is true! Psychiatric diagnoses ARE subjective - just in the eyes of the beholder! There are no objective tests, no blood tests, no measurement of differents levels of this or that in the brain. It´s all a matter of checklists and arbitrarily included behaviour. Nothing else. All medical tests done during the psychiatric evaluation are only done to reveal if there are REAL medical conditions, real illness. If some abnormality is found it is no longer a matter of, for example ADHD, it is a matter of for example lead poisoning.

To criticize psychiatry in this way is forbidden. I noticed that the American Psychiatric Association immediately reacted to what Cruise said and compared his statement with statements that the earth is flat!

To much is at stake. If persons would require their doctor to do an objective test of their assumed lack of this and that (in the brain) the whole psychiatric empire would be threatened. If they would ask their doctor to measure if they now have a "natural balance" in the brain - after the "treatment" - the dear doctor would have to say that this is impossible. There are no values for a "natural balance", it can not be measured. It can only be assumed.

A new survey over mental illness has recently been completed in the US. It found - as expected - that a huge percentage of the population did fit into the diagnostic criteria, and needed treatment. There is nothing "evidence based" over psychiatry - it is definitely a pseudo science.

Incorrect (none / 0) (#8)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 05:16:36 PM PST

Cruise did state that there are no medical tests, no proven "biochemical imbalance" for the claimed psychiatric disorders. And everybody knows this is true!

Then everybody is wrong.  There has been a great deal of work done on the chemistry of the brain and, while much of the brain's workings are still a mystery, quite a bit is known and well documented.  People with certain types of mental illnesses, including depression, exhibit observable brain chemistry abnormalities.  These abnormalities can be corrected with treatment.

This is not a matter of speculation, it is a matter of science.  

Psychiatry is certainly a valid subject for criticism, and I personally believe that chemical corrections to behaviour are perscribed far too often.  But Tom Cruise is completely wrong in this case.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

Cruise statements about psychiatry (none / 0) (#12)
by olof29 (Sweden) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 05:44:16 PM PST

I´m sorry it is only assumptions, speculations - not science. Real illnesses are measured in the indivudual case with objective tests, confirming an abnormality. This is not the case for "psychiatric disorders".

Instead we hear all this "scientists believe there is...". Of course a certain behaviour problem could be a sign of real physical illnesses - and that the proof of that can be found in the future. But when there are no proofs it should be said.

To tell a child - without any proof - that he has something wrong in his brain that makes it impossible for him to function like other kids is simply outrageous. To then give him mind altering drugs to "correct" this "wrongness" makes it even worse.

[ Parent ]

Again, wrong (none / 0) (#13)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 06:54:29 PM PST

I´m sorry it is only assumptions, speculations - not science. Real illnesses are measured in the indivudual case with objective tests, confirming an abnormality. This is not the case for "psychiatric disorders".

I'm afraid you're wrong about that.  People suffering from depression, psychosis, schizophrenia or other similar disorders have very real and measureable chemical imbalances in their brains.  These effects are well known and well documented.  For a sampling of the chemistry behind it, take a look here, here and here, or better yet, find a real textbook on brain chemistry and start reading.

Instead we hear all this "scientists believe there is...". Of course a certain behaviour problem could be a sign of real physical illnesses - and that the proof of that can be found in the future. But when there are no proofs it should be said.

'Instead we hear'.  A lot of your argument seems to rest on suppostion and hearsay.  Can you please reference any sort of legitimate scientific documentation, reference, study or peer-reviewed article which defends the position that psychosis is not a real problem?  

There is a very real and active branch of science concerned with the chemistry of the brain and the relationship between disorders of that chemistry and mental illness.  It's not something that Phizer made up one day to help sell pills.

To tell a child - without any proof - that he has something wrong in his brain that makes it impossible for him to function like other kids is simply outrageous. To then give him mind altering drugs to "correct" this "wrongness" makes it even worse.

This is a strawman of the worst order.  Do children sometimes get incorrectly diagnosed with mental disorders?  Absolutely.  Are there too many physicians proscribing Ritalin and other treatments without a sufficient consideration of the case or alternative treatments?  Quite possibly, in point of fact I would argue that there is.  Does this mean that Ritalin and other, similar drugs don't work?  Absolutely not.  They are designed to affect specific conditions of brain chemistry to achieve a specific goal.  There is a great deal of real and legitimate science behind them.  You can't simply dismiss it because you don't like how it's being used in one instance.

There are a great many people in the world who deal with very real problems which these sorts of drugs can ameliorate or even resolve completely.  That doesn't happen by accident.  It happens as a result of real science and its practical application for the betterment of all.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

Chemical imbalance and psychaitric assault (none / 0) (#15)
by olof29 (Sweden) on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 03:04:22 AM PST


You would get proof if you would ask your psychiatrist to measure your serotonin level and then tell if it was normal or not, imbalanced or not. There is simply no test in the individual case. For real illnesses there are objective tests in the individual case.

It is an easy trick to claim that critics of the madness of psychiatric diagnoses thinks "that psychosis is not a real problem", or that other persons labeled are not having problems. Of course the problem is real. That does not mean - or prove - that it is located in the brain.

To quote a recent article in NYT: "Psychiatrists have been searching for more than a century for some biological marker for mental disease, to little avail. Although there is promising work in genetics and brain imaging, researchers are not likely to have anything resembling a blood test for a mental illness soon, leaving them with what they have always had: observations of behavior, and patients' answers to questions about how they feel and how severe their condition is." Snake Phobias, Moodiness and a Battle in Psychiatry, Carey.

And these fantastic observations of behaviour have now given us a population full of mental disorders. A recent survey (the National Comorbidity Survey Replication) done by the National Institute of Mental Health "found" that half of the population in the US have or will develop a mental disorder. And of course many will "need treatment".

All of these disorders claimed to be "brain disorders" and "chronic". But ask your doctor what your normal serotonin level is and ask him to measure it. If he can´t ask him to send you to a specialist who can tell if your level is normal or not. The answer will be very revealing.


[ Parent ]

Nope, still wrong (none / 0) (#16)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Mon Jun 27, 2005 at 08:52:44 AM PST

But ask your doctor what your normal serotonin level is and ask him to measure it. If he can´t ask him to send you to a specialist who can tell if your level is normal or not. The answer will be very revealing.

I live in a country with a high quality socialized health care system, but even my general practitioner doesn't have access to the kinds of specialized equipment you'd find in a high-end research laboratory.  That doesn't mean that such equipment doesn't exist.

To quote a recent article in NYT:

To put it mildly, I wouldn't consider the New York Times an authoritative source.

And these fantastic observations of behaviour have now given us a population full of mental disorders. A recent survey (the National Comorbidity Survey Replication) done by the National Institute of Mental Health "found" that half of the population in the US have or will develop a mental disorder. And of course many will "need treatment".

And studies by oil companies indicate that global warming is a myth.  What's your point?  Studies have been used incorrectly in every discipline and every field of endeavour.  That doesn't mean anything other than that every industry has its share of slimy marketing people.

You would get proof if you would ask your psychiatrist to measure your serotonin level and then tell if it was normal or not, imbalanced or not. There is simply no test in the individual case. For real illnesses there are objective tests in the individual case.

There are many techniques to determine chemical levels in the brain.  Even with my limited layman's knowledge of the subject, I was aware of Positron Emission Tomography, which allows scientists to monitor chemical levels in the body and has contributed to the growing body of neuropsychological research.  

You seem to be very confused about the difference between diagnostics and the science behind the treatment.  Scientists spend a great deal of time studying how the brain works and how to fix its problems.  Treatments like Ritalin are based on that body of real science and have been extensively tested.  They do what they are intended to do.

Diagnosis is a different issue.  General practitioners are just that -- generalists.  They don't have access to the specialized equipment or training to create the drugs, but they understand how they work and they are trained to properly administer them.  If they're not doing so, then it's an issue of medical ethics in the diagnostic phase.  It's not a reason to condemn the science out of hand.

It's very much like someone bringing a malfunctioning computer to me and asking me to fix it.  I don't have access to the equipment or the training to monitor at the physical level what is happening in the basic components of that machine, but that doesn't mean the knowledge and the capability to do so doesn't exist.  Instead I will use diagnostic techniques to infer what is happening in the machine.  I can do this on extremely complicated systems with a very high degree of accuracy.  

If you take your machine to Microsoft, they'll probably tell you to reinstall the OS.  This is a fix which probably isn't related to the root cause of the issue.  The problem isn't in the science, it is in the support personnel at Microsoft and the culture which produced them.  You're doing the equivalent of jumping up and down and screaming about how this proves that computer technology is all smoke and mirrors without any real science underneath it.  Quite simply, you're wrong.  The techniques to accurately diagnose the problem exist, and the science behind the treatment is real and valid.  If some people can't or won't properly apply those diagnostic techniques in favour of taking the easy road, then that's a problem with the ethics of those people.

I'll say it again: these drugs are based on real science and they do what they are intended to do.  If they are being misused, then it is a problem of prescribing physicians who can properly diagnose these problems and properly apply treatments, but for some reason are not doing so.  This is not a failure of science, it is a failure of ethics.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

The new Ritalin warning (none / 0) (#18)
by olof29 (Sweden) on Tue Jun 28, 2005 at 05:58:20 PM PST


I think the final answer to this came today when FDA finally after all these years admits that there can be BIG problems about the safety of Ritalin, Concerta and other "ADHD medicines".

Take a look at the article "FDA: Concerned With Psychiatric Risks With ADHD Drugs", just published.

What does the APA say now about "safe and effective"?


[ Parent ]

Well (none / 0) (#19)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Wed Jun 29, 2005 at 08:10:05 AM PST

If these drugs are being incorrectly perscribed, then there is an increased risk of unexpected side-effect.  Not to sound like a broken record here, but this isn't a problem of the science, it's a problem of medical ethics at the diagnostic step.

What does the APA say now about "safe and effective"?

I would think that it says that the human brain is incredibly complex and it's difficult to produce drugs which are perfect.  It's difficult to produce anything which is perfect.  Again, this does nothing to invalidate the science behind the drugs.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

I wonder what the studios think... (none / 0) (#2)
by Drog (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 11:50:51 AM PST

If Cruise has decided to start speaking his mind about his Scientology beliefs, I'm betting that Hollywood studios will not be pleased. The last thing they want an actor to do when promoting a film is to start making very controversial statements that could alienate a lot of moviegoers. If he continues this, it may actually impact his career. Time will tell.

Scientology (none / 0) (#11)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 05:32:16 PM PST

There are an awful lot of Scientologists in the entertainment business and the Church of Scientology has a very litigious history.  I suspect that, if anyone in the studio system has a problem with Scientology, they keep it to themselves.

If his statements of his beliefs alienate enough people, it might eventually harm his career, as you say.  But I think it would take a pretty noticeable drop-off in his ability to produce audiences for his movies before anybody did anything.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

Tom's opinion (none / 0) (#3)
by ncsmds (Afghanistan) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 12:25:39 PM PST

Cruise's claim to have a scientific understanding of the way antidepressants work is countered by the fact that he has not formally studied medicine beyond a high school education -

PULEEZE  How can anyone even think that a person without a medical degree is not able to understand or comment on a health issue.  With all the information available today on every possible subject one only needs to research (as Tom seems to have done) a specific subject to become as knowledgeable as some doctors are.!!!
And to think that medicine is the ONLY way to treat a problem is the PC line put forth by the pharmaceutical companies!  As many people as Matt L. knows who benefited from  ritalin there are 10 times as many who have had horrible problems from it. And many more who have found alternatives.  (Yes - I know them personally!)  So - when is society going to insist that there is more than one way to skin a catfish!?
What a shame that Tom's views are ridiculed because he has the courage to stand up for his beliefs.(Which by the way are NOT my beliefs).

Well now (none / 0) (#10)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 05:28:32 PM PST

How can anyone even think that a person without a medical degree is not able to understand or comment on a health issue.  With all the information available today on every possible subject one only needs to research (as Tom seems to have done) a specific subject to become as knowledgeable as some doctors are.

I assume you don't know many doctors?  Medical science is a very complicated and nuanced subject of study, brain chemistry even more so.  People spend many long years studying the discipline full-time, in school and in practice, and most of them would tell you that they still don't understand it fully.  I find it impossible to believe that Tom Cruise gained the equivalent of a medical degree from surfing the web in between shooting the latest Mission Impossible sequel and I fear for your safety if you trust that level of education and experience in your own health care.

What a shame that Tom's views are ridiculed because he has the courage to stand up for his beliefs.

I respect Tom Cruise's rights to believe whatever he wants to believe.  But when he uses those beliefs as a foundation for criticism of science, then he is opening himself up to criticism in turn.  If he doesn't want his beliefs criticized then he should leave them out of public view.

And to think that medicine is the ONLY way to treat a problem is the PC line put forth by the pharmaceutical companies!

That isn't what Tom Cruise is saying.  What he's saying is that "there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance".  What he is doing is trying to refute a well researched and well established branch of science on the basis of his religious beliefs.  

He should expect to be criticized for that, in any rational society.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

Tom Cruise Is Right (none / 0) (#4)
by Drog (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 01:18:36 PM PST

The following was submitted as a story, but it really should have been a comment, so I'm reposting it here. Incidentally, the reason that comments can no longer be posted without an account is that spammers were recently peppering our site with hundreds of spam comments. My apologies for the inconvenience, but it really doesn't take long to create an account.

- Drog

Tom Cruise is absolutely right to have corrected Matt Lauer on the recent Today Show!
I've helped thousands of children and parents NOT use the "kid speed" called Ritalin which only suppressess symtoms and does not handle underlying cause.  I know that natural handlings of so-called ADD work when there is actually a physical problem.  Or, it may be nothing in the first place.  It may be genius intelligence one's dealing with. You do not need a drug to "cure" a child's natural high-interest in life, or boredom with "modern-day" psychology-oriented schooling. Did you know that per testing, most children who are so-called "ADD" or "hyperactive" simply have a much higher IQ then the other children in class. Yes. This is true per my 15 years of research. So what are we doing then?  Are we drugging down and suppressing the normal curiousity of our next generations geniuses - the next Einstein, Motzart, or Tessla?  I say NO.  And apparently Tom Cruise agrees.  We can not be "Lemmings to the Sea" and follow blindly on the matter of our next generations' welfare and their ability to create our future.

Sincerely,

E. Hunter
Santa Rosa, CA.  95405

Tom Cruise is wrong (none / 0) (#9)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 05:21:55 PM PST

Whether or not Ritalin works is a different issue than whether or not Ritalin is over-proscribed.  Tom Cruise is a member of a faith (for lack of a better term) whose teachings contradict science.  Following his faith, Mr. Cruise rejects the scientific underpinnings which explain why Ritalin can do what it does.  This is not an argument from compassion, it is an argument from ignorance.

Ritalin does what it is intended to do.  I'm not a fan of its widespread use, but that doesn't change the fact that there is an underlying problem which Ritalin was invented to address, nor does it change the fact that it works, and can be demonstrated to work.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

Undue attention. (none / 0) (#5)
by emsti (USA) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 01:36:20 PM PST

I think this whole episode is getting more than its deserved share of attention.

He's not a doctor of any sort, just reading up on stuff does not make someone an expert. He's read more and has formed opinions on what he's read. Its quite a leap to start passing comments in the media about how such and such is a bunch of baloney or whatever he said. Ask any practising professional what it means to actually have experience in the medical industry, or engineering  or any hands on approach to science for that matter. Its definitely not just reading.

Maybe if he wants to discredit psychiatry so much, he should have his church go out and publish papers that disprove scientifically that psychiatry is a bluff. They sure seem to have the money to do it. Why not try to put the money to some other good uses as well?

Sure he can defend his point of opinion, but why are other ppl making such a fuss about it. Just because he's Tom Cruise. That is so artificial. Lets see things for what they are. Not what the media makes of it, we are adults, who can and should think for ourselves.

Regarding Brooke Shields... (none / 0) (#6)
by Drog (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 01:54:51 PM PST

Tom is free to think whatever he wants regarding psychiatry and the use of psychiatric drugs, of course. He is also free to express those opinions. But that's where it should stop. He has no business passing judgement or even commenting on other people's choices. Criticizing Brooke Shields because she took drugs for postpartum depression was completely out of line, in my opinion.

For her part, she struck back by saying that she wouldn't take advice from someone who devotes his life to aliens, referring, of course, to his Scientology beliefs.

Tomīs statements about psychiatry (none / 0) (#7)
by olof29 (Sweden) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 02:54:42 PM PST

Funny to see that one of the arguments against Tom Cruise´s statements is that "he is not a doctor". But the point about psychiatric diagnoses is that it doesn´t take any real knowledge to give them. The power in these diagnoses lies in that they are so simple that you should be able to diagnose yourself home in the kitchen (with some "do it yourself kit" issued by a pharmaceutical company) and then visit your doctor to get the "official scientific declaration". But all is done without any form of objective test - all is subjective. It doesn´t take any medical knowledge to issue a psychiatric diagnosis.

Other areas in society are now seen as "subareas" to psychiatry. All is "mental health". Car accidents, unemployment, low salaries are all seen as results of lack of psychiatric intervention (in time). Thus these areas are also "psychiatric specialities".

So you would soon have to be a psychiatrist (a doctor)to say anything - it´s all about mental health!

Well (none / 0) (#14)
by you look like a nail (Canada) on Sun Jun 26, 2005 at 07:00:49 PM PST

It doesn´t take any medical knowledge to issue a psychiatric diagnosis.

... but it does take a medical degree to issue a psychiatric perscription.  The reason it does is because it takes a great deal of education and experience to understand the science behind the drugs.  If they are being incorrectly perscribed, then it's a question of medical ethics.  It is not an excuse to reject science.

-- Your Reality Check is in the mail.
[ Parent ]

Tomīs statements about psychiatry (none / 0) (#17)
by msndame (USA) on Tue Jun 28, 2005 at 07:35:39 AM PST

Obviously, Tom Cruise has never had any kind of traumatic experience. I wonder what would happen if something traumatic, such as a rape, happened to his fiancee or any other person he was extremely close too. Would he forbid that person from seeking counseling from a professional person who is trained to deal with these situations. Does he think that he could help that person deal with the nightmares that wake that person up and make her afraid to go back to sleep.

Mr. Cruise has just insulted all of his fans who may be seeking the services of mental health experts. He is just another mouthpiece who does not know what he is talking about. Who does he think he is to play "God" with someone's life?

Personally, if I did take the anti-depressant that I take nor be able to go see a therapist, I would probably not be writing this letter.

[ Parent ]

Tom is a Jerk (none / 0) (#20)
by canadianpride (Canada) on Mon Jul 03, 2006 at 01:53:41 AM PST

Tom lost me as a fan, I'm sure there are many more out there. Unless you have been IN the situation, one doesn't know anything about it.

[ Parent ]


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